Ageism in America: What we ALL need to know

You are listening to Boomers Today with your host Frank Samson. Well, welcome to Boomers Today. I’m Frank Samson. Of course, each week we bring you important and very useful information on issues facing baby boomers, their parents and other loved ones.

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It’s because our listeners are growing each and every day. It’s because of all of you, and I just again just want to thank you. And I know why you are sending sharing information with friends and families because we have wonderful guests, very educational and I’m not going to disappoint you today because we have with us Chris Gearkin, who advocates I pronounced your last name correctly, Chris, I should have asked, yes, I got it right, Okay, right. So.

Chris advocates for increasing awareness of ageism and ableism as core pillars of her work. She is driven by a vision of an equitable world that embraces individual of all ages, abilities, and identities. Her work for changing the narrative focused on raising awareness this about the harms of ageism. Chris served as an adjunct instructor with the Metropolitan State University of Denver and co developed the course Agism and Ableism.

Previously, Chris gained valuable experience work in hospice developing a community training program in advance care planning. So, Chris, thank you so much for joining us on Boomers today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for Frank for having me today.

I’m really happy to be here with you. Yeah. So, Litsten, It’s such an important subject matter, agism. I mean, we deal with it every single day, all right, I see it, and I guess I’m just curious.

I always like to know how people got involved. I mean, what you’re doing is fantastic. How’d you get involved in? This was a personal situation or what made you kind of concentrate and be an expert on this subject matter? Yeah, great question. Well, interestingly, it was not until I was in my early fifties that I even learned about what ageism is.

And leading up to my early fifties, I had gone to college for human development. My bachelor’s is in human development, and I focused on aging issues and grief and loss, was working in hospice, and then in my fifties, I decided to go back to school for my master’s in health administration, and during that time I also was concentrating in aging issues because it’s just been a lifelong passion which is really rooted in my grandmother and how she was like the most important person in my childhood and sadly she died when I was sixteen, and so she just was really instrumental in shaping who I am and how much I valued her wisdom, just you know, at my young age, but it carried through with me. And so while I was in my master’s program, I saw this workshop that was about agism, and I thought the sounds interesting, it’s about aging, So let me go take this workshop. And it was a half day workshop hosted by Changing the Narrative also an organization I hadn’t heard of at the time, and in the workshop, it just, you know, shared all this information about what ageism looks like, how it’s impacting us, and how it’s everywhere.

And what really struck me about it, kind of like an Aha moment, was that agism impacts all of us at every age and we don’t even know it. And I’m always drawn to whatever issues exist that we may know nothing about, but they might be doing harm to us. So the better informed we are, the better able we are to make decisions in our life to live a better life and better quality of life. So when I found out about that that I have to get involved with this, and that led to me becoming doing a capstone project for changing the narrative in my master’s program, and then I was hired by them to do all of this work, which ended up evolving into an ageism in healthcare focus in my work with changing the narrative fantastic.

So help us understand exactly what agism means and well, actually maybe a two part question here, and explain maybe the difference between agism and ableism, all right, and why agism is so prevalent in our society today. Okay, yeah, great questions. So in the US we are inundated with messages that tell us to fear aging and to fight aging. And the definition of ageism is the stereotyping, prejudice and discrimination based on age, so specifically about based on age, So this mindset would include things like I don’t want to get old, or assuming that old age results in depression, decline, dependence, or loss of autonomy.

Ageism also affects younger people as well, so not just older people, but particularly in employment. For younger people, they’re often denied leadership opportunities because they lack years of experience, and rather than being evaluated on their actual skills, knowledge and capabilities, they’re often just dismissed and not hired because they haven’t worked long enough. So that’s not helpful to anyone obviously. And then when it comes to ableism, what’s really interesting is that ageist beliefs are often conflated with ableist beliefs, so internalized ageism and ableism influence and unhealthy association with aging, and this can lead to self rejection.

So what ableism means in this context would be stereotyping, prejudice, and discrimination and social oppression toward people with disabilities. So it’s a set of beliefs and practices that place value and judgment on physical, cognitive, and intellectual abilities. And like ageism, preferring certain abilities over others leads to othering people and being viewed as less capable. So that’s how they’re kind of intertwined together.

Yeah. Yeah, So maybe you could share some maybe some examples of ageism that many people experience without even realizing it. What are some examples? Yeah, A great example in the workshops that I’ve facilitated with people, many participants have shared their experience/audiences of being dismissed by healthcare providers who’ve attributed, say, symptoms such as back pain to being their chronological age. So a person would go in and say, oh, you know, I say you’re an older adult, and you go in and your back has been hurting, and you tell the doctor and they just tell you old.

That’s what you can expect when you’re seventy five or whatever age you are. And another example it often happens in healthcare is elder speak, and that would be addressing an older adult is if they’re a child, and it would mean it looks like speaking more slowly or raising your voice based on assumptions about a person’s hearing ability. So those often show up in healthcare. And it’s important to point out that elder speak has good intentions.

People want to speak to an older person kindly, but if we speak to them as though they’re children, it’s actually demeaning and research has found that it actually harms their health, so it’s not the best way. It’s best to speak to people as they appear to yourself, you know. Yeah, so are there stereotypes about aging and well, I know there are, and and really does anybody really benefit from from those stereotypes about aging? Yeah, well, there are definitely people that are benefiting. But what’s interesting about the stereotypes is that they start developing when we’re about age four, and their shape by the environments that we grow up in.

So when we’re children, people read fairy tales to us and story books, and we see cartoons, and we see things of older people, like older women as evil witches and older men as ogres or villains, and these books and television shows reinforce negative stereotypes that depict older characters as cranky, forgetful, or incompetent, and as children, we’re very influenced by the adults in our lives. So when we have that happen as children, it sort of plants a seed in the back of our mind and it becomes unconscious, and so that’s how it develops from an early age. But what it’s important to understand is because it’s unconscious, it’s hard for us to recognize it. So when we think about who’s profiting or who’s benefiting right, anti aging products are created and marketed to make us feel like we’re less than and these companies generate trillions of dollars in profits by promoting the idea that youth and looking younger, being younger is preferable.

And these ads and things we see in media about anti aging overwhelm us with these messages to be different than we are and that looking and being older is something that’s unattractive and undesirable. So we all pay the price and like more on a mental health side or our own self esteem, feeling as though we are less than if we look and become older. So we buy into the anti aging messages and it’s sort of tied into these developmental beliefs that are unconscious like lifelong, because all of us are exposed to and you know, these agis messages in this society. It’s interesting you brought up the anti aging products.

I was going to ask you about that, and you know, you know say it advertised all the time. I guess my question to you, if you know, I mean to most any of these. Work, I mean anti aging products. Yeah, ad to aging products.

It’s a good question. There are maybe some that do work. I’m not a fan. I would say what’s best to do is, like you know, obviously, like the basic things that we always hear, is like to eat well and exercise and stay hydrated, eat more vegetables and good proteins, and get outside and have a good social life and just all of the kind of the basic lifestyle factors and behaviors that attribute to a good quality of life.

Those would be what I would say to do. Because I definitely cannot tell you if there’s any anti aging product that truly works. I my belief is probably the same, not many, if any, Yeah, you know, but to me, I think I just maybe helps the person feel better about themselves. I’m not saying that that’s good bad.

I don’t know what your thoughts are on that if it’s just making the individual feel better about themselves. Yes, yeah, And that’s a good point because the actions that we take are you know, we want to do things to help ourselves feel good about who we are and getting older, right, and so when we live in a culture that’s so agis telling us to not get old or not look old. If it makes us feel good, like we are taking action in you know, buying these products or doing these certain actions that help us feel supported as changes occur as we age, then go for it, you know, like it definitely matters, because the things we do that help us feel a sense of agency about our trajectory of aging and living this life really does matter. We need to feel is that we have this sense of empowerment in how we age, right.

Right, right? Well, what about how do you feel ageism effects And we could probably spend the entire rest of the podcast on this subject, but how do you feel ageism affects a person’s physical and mental health? Yeah, that’s a really good question because it definitely does well when we think about internalized agism, So that would be the self talk like I don’t want to get old, or I don’t want to look old. That would be internalized agis beliefs. These can transform just this natural life stage, this process of getting older, which is natural, into a self fulfilling prophecy of inevitable decline. So it would be like a self directed bias impacting our confidence, and it harms our self efficacy, and it causes us to doubt our own capabilities, and we may even withdraw from social interactions if we start to really buy into these ageis narratives.

So it can take a toll on our mental health. It could lead to depression, anxiety, and isolation. This can also create a barrier to seeking support. Individuals often dismiss treatable medical psychological issues as just part of getting old, or they might even hide their concerns out of a desire to protect their independence and autonomy.

So it’s really important to be aware of like ourselves, our own self talk, and are we making choices and attributing changes within ourselves to just getting older, or might there be something happening that we need to address so that we can live a healthier life and you know, be proactive, Yeah. You know, and I’m sure you’re surrounded with it. To surrounded with you know, friends and family, and you know, I correct people when they say, well, I’m am I old or am I getting old? And I always correct them and say, you know you’re getting older, You’re not old, you know. So don’t you think though that psychologically as some people as they age, they I don’t know, it seems like they’re they’re making themselves older just from psychologically.

Yeah, well, because of how immersed we are in our society with ageis messages, So it makes sense, right, we all are so influenced by the world around us that television shows, the social media that’s everywhere, and all of these messages that are much more dominant telling us to not get older and being older is full of problems and all these negative experiences when that in reality, it’s not the truth. We know that aging doesn’t mean necessarily disability is going to happen to everyone. But these alarmist narratives about ageism and ableism that tell us the aging and disability are hand in hand and that we’re supposed to avoid all of that, and you know, people are profiting at those messages. But when we become aware of the beliefs that we have, we can look for more information to become well informed and understand that why, Like what I do is and I often tell like my friends and family to think about why you have that thought, Like, if you’re thinking, I don’t want to get old, I don’t want to look old, where does that come from? Where did you learn it? You know you weren’t born thinking I don’t want to become old.

And at the same time, many cultures around the world reverse aging and it’s some it’s a stage of life to aspire to and right, be wonderful, wouldn’t. I would love it if we all could feel that becoming older is a gift and that we should feel excited about that. And we can, right, but our society tells us otherwise. So I’m hoping to, you know, get this work more out there into the world so people can recognize that I could actually think about how it is in other cultures and be excited to get older and aspire to something more because life is a continuum of change, right, and it can look however we would like it to look.

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with you on that. So Chris, We’re going to take a real quick break. I promised just to recognize our sponsor and we come back. Certainly want to learn for you to share with people all the great things you’re doing, how they can learn more.

And I want to touch upon ageism in the workplace. I want to talk to you about that a little bit. Okay, So are you looking for a program at your company to assist employees with elder care needs for their loved ones. Well.

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To learn more, go to www. Dot Senior Careauthority dot com, slash ease ease, or you can call eight eight eight eight zero nine one two three one and just press extension one. All right, we are back with Chris Skirkin, who advocates for the increasing awareness of ageism and ableism as her core pillars of work. So, Chris, I’d love to learn more, just maybe share with our listeners how they could learn more about all the great things, wonderful things you are doing, whatever you’d like to share.

Thank you for that. Well, I’m now working with Virginia Commonwealth University where I just recently earned my graduate certification in gerontology, and so I’m affiliated with the gerontology department and program there and I’ve been able to do some research on agism and ableism and I’m hoping to continue to do further research on those topics. And they have a great program. If anybody’s interested in gerontology or learning more about aging education and aging and gerontology, check out VCU.

And also I’m all affiliated with the American Society on Aging, who’s a wonderful organization nationwide who offer all sorts of workshops and education on aging issues. So they could check out the America Society and Aging as well. But I’m just out there, you know, trying to spread this message everywhere I can, to the public and professionals to just help raise awareness because the more we can do that the less we will suffer as we’re aging because we don’t have to lift a buy into the age’s messages. Right, that’s want wonderful work.

So I know the answer to this, but I’m going to answer it anyway. And the reason I know the answer is because I see it every single day that senior care authority or a franchise organization, and I talk to prospective candidates all the time who want to add an age and they either are let go in the workplace or they make a change and they can’t get back into corporate America at their age. They come out right out and say it, all right, So I know age discrimination in the workplace is prevalent today, but I like you to expound upon that and what’s being done regarding that. Yeah.

Actually, interestingly, my husband last year retired from his position at the company he worked for for like ten years and anticipated going into consulting work right away. But it took many, many many months, much longer than he anticipated to find his next role in his profession, and it hit him pretty hard. He had to come into like a realization that maybe ageism is at play here because we’re both in our sixties and he was wondering, especially he’s aware because of the work that I do that ageism might be the influence as to why he wasn’t landing anything, and so it was disheartening in a big wake up call for him. But it definitely is a problem where older people are marginalized in the workplace.

It’s definitely common and very difficult and what we just need to help shift this structure because all of us at every age are valuable and you know, many years in the workforce of whatever work you’re doing has value. And so it’s this misconception that’s built, which is rooted in ageism, that because someone is older, they’re potentially less capable or unable to keep up with technology or whatever other stereotype is presented out there, and people buy into those sound bites, you know that they think that, oh, an older person, they’re not capable, and those are age just narratives. So we just need to help raise awareness. And every time I teach a class, every time I do a workshop, people of all ages attend, and everyone of every age understands right away.

As soon as you start to explain it more give examples, everyone will like chime in with their own personal experiences on how they’ve seen or experienced ageous situations. And what’s important in this and when we think about work is wherever you’re working, be aware of that because you know, if you’re a younger person and seeing ageism happen in the workplace, whether it happens to you as a young person, or you’re seeing it happen to an older person, or you’re the older person having an experience of being pushed out or feeling a pressure to be pushed out, come together to talk about that because it could happen to any of us at any age, and no one wants to be put in that position. And we need to recognize the value of everyone in the workplace and support one another. And so there we just need to raise more awareness about how ageism is really the underlying factor here that’s driving those perspectives that people may hold which are just incorrect, you know, it’s not.

You have to look at the individual person and what they’re bringing. And if you think that someone is changing in their productivity or effectiveness at work, then have conversations about what’s happening. It could be just things are happening at home and there’s a lot going on and it’s making work more complicated. But age doesn’t mean that somebody is unable to do their job right.

Great, So any advice for people who are listening and are actually in that situation right now where they feel they’re being discriminated against at work because of age, any advice for them what to do? Yeah, I would say I learn more about you know, get become more aware of what agism looks like. And there’s great resources on ageism in the workforce to check out. And Ganine Vanderberg was who I worked with at Changing the Narrative and she’s on LinkedIn and does some great work. She’s very much focused on ageism in the workplace, so you could look up her name to find out more specifically on that topic.

But if you feel that it’s happening to you, learn about it so you can speak up and stand up for yourself. If you feel comfortable, you could ask if you know there’s more, just how you could show up more effectively, if there’s anything more you could be doing at work that you feel like maybe people are thinking that you’re not doing enough. I’m not, you know, that’s one thing depends on who you’re working with, but you could ask in that direction. But it’s what’s complicated about it is that it’s hard sometimes to call it out right because people like if an employer is pushing you out.

It actually happened when I was working in Aspice. A colleague of mine was being pushed out that she was an older person, and they just little by little kind of doing things. This is before I learned about ageism, but little by little the company was sort of reducing her job capacity and ultimately she ended up quitting. But you know, if that’s starting to happen, do things to like self advocate.

So what do you believe? How can individuals like that? Organizations or communities as a whole challenge these, I guess harmful narratives. What advice can you give there? Definitely in an organization, it’s really effective to have training on ageism, which is what I had done a lot of when I was changing the narrative. I have lots of great presentations to educate the workforce and professionals about what ageism looks like. So if you can bring in an ageism awareness program training, that would be excellent.

They do exist, and I could help people find those so they could contact me if they’re interested in that. But educating your teams, your organization on what ageism looks like is extremely helpful. Every time I’ve done those for organizations, it benefits everybody because it just starts to plant the seed that people aren’t aware of how harmful it is and what they can do to change their situation and not be an agist organization. Yeah.

So, unfortunately we’re getting close to being out of time here, so I could talk to you quite a while longer on this subject matter, but you know, maybe a couple things. One I’d like to know just any small, everyday actions that people can do to help reduce ageism. And then maybe have you discuss anything that you would like that maybe you had hoped I would have asked and maybe didn’t ask. Okay, sure, So everyday action and what I recommend for people to do is just take notice of the self talk.

You know, if a thought comes into your head that oh I’m looking old or I’m feeling old, question your thought, ask yourself where it came from. Why did I have that thought? Is it actually true? And how is that helping me? What can I do about that? Do I need to get help from someone? Do I need to see a doctor to talk about this change that I’m experiencing in my body, and to know that, Like, as we’re moving through life, just think back on your whole life span. Think of all the changes that you went through during puberty right or midlife. Like life is about change and getting older, change happens there too, right, and our bodies change.

All kinds of things change as we get older, and not all of that should be viewed as something negative. So find the value in all of the years you’ve lived, the experiences you’ve acquired, the perspectives that you have, and also know that the there are people out there that can support you if you’re not sure if something’s changing and you should be concerned about it, just be aware of the thoughts that come up and help yourself feel supported and not just buy into the aegis narratives that are so dominant, and if anything, find it as a personal challenge to like, if I have an age’s thought or I see an ageist statement or able a statement out there, I’m going to question it and I’m going to call it out and just like have conversations with people about it and explore it more with other people, because it’s just sort of this horrible reality that’s unknown to so many people. And I’ve found that in my work. And once you start to bring it forward and kind of bring it into the light, people are like, oh my gosh, that’s happened to me, or I’ve had that thought or I’ve had that experience, and none of us want to go through that.

And ageism in and of itself. Research has found that when we have aegis beliefs, it can actually reduce our life spans by up to seven and a half years. So we have a good reason to push back on the age’s narratives and anything that’s telling us that we should not get older or look older or be older. So we have the power to not buy into that.

Right with that, we’re going to have to finish up here. So thank you Chris so much for joining us on us today. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me here with.

You, and thank you everybody for joining us. Of course, jeez, please be safe and we will talk to everybody next week. You’ve been listening to Boomers Today with Frank Sampson. To learn more about today’s show, visit Boomerstoday Radio dot com and join us next time for another edition of Boomers Today.